4 responses to “A Letter to “Pastor Jim””

1. O.M.G,,,,,My Mother became a Morman before she died̷̷.
   she told me a lt of what you have written. And
   I attended,”Jews for Jesus”,thinking it was awsome,but never had the time,with Jobs,cars,houses,school.
   thank -you for this info,,,,,more than you know̷̷.
   ̷̷̷̷̷̷̷.DOC BONEZ̷̷̷̷̷̷̷̷̷̷̷.

2. True-
   Would you please post Pastor Jim’s response?

3. Unfortunately, I didn’t get a reply from Jim – only from his wife Dorothy. Jim tends to let Dorothy answer for him on certain “controversial” topics it would seem.

   Here is her response:

   HI True–
   Thanks for all this. Here are a few quick comments, which is all the time I have for this!

   I see no connection between anything you’ve linked and the actual ministry which goes by the name of Jews for Jesus, other than the use of those 3 words. (www.jewsforjesus.org). Founder Moishe Rosen would have been profoundly offended (and then laughed himself into a heart attack) by your assertion that they are “an outgrowth of LDS – specifically BYU”! There is absolutely nothing in the Jews for Jesus statement of faith that is even remotely consistent with LDS doctrine (www.jewsforjesus.org/about/who-we-are/statementoffaith).

   We are all well aware of LDS attempts to usurp Judaism and Jewish history– nothing new here! But that’s not a reason to separate ourselves from this ministry. In our long late-night conversation with the young woman who made the presentation that night, we discussed lots of LDS silliness relating to Judaism, and there was much laughter over her frustrated cry, “I wish they would stop usurping my history!” (We know that will never happen̷)

   You haven’t actually made any observations about the event itself, nor the teaching content of it. The purpose statement of Jews for Jesus is one we heartily endorse: “We exist to make the messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue to our Jewish people worldwide.” They will engage anyone, anywhere in a conversation about the biblical messiah, Jewish or not! As most people know someone who at least claims Jewish identity (even if there is no actual bloodline), it’s very helpful for followers of Jesus to understand how this feast points to Jesus, the Jewish Messiah, equipping them to have conversations about Him with those they know who claim to be Jewish. They do not teach that Christians should claim to be Jews, or even observe the traditional Passover– only that they understand it properly. The issue is Jesus, not Israeli politics, or world religion, or who is Jewish and who is not.

   Back to work now!
   D.

   Here is my response to her:
   Dorothy:

   Did you take the time to follow all of the links I sent? I doubt it.

   If you honestly can’t (or won’t) see the truth in the STUDIES of genetics – showing who today’s “Jews” really are – I guess that’s all I need to know. It shows me you are likely more concerned about “political correctness” than standing up for historical, empirical TRUTH. The question is: Can we agree to disagree?

   Did you personally know Moishe Rosen? If not, how can you make such a blanket declaration for him? YOU DON’T REALLY KNOW THE INNER WORKINGS OF MORMONISM, Dorothy. You don’t. You don’t really know how deeply they are connected to World Zionism and the “Messianic Jew” movement in Israel and NYC. Please don’t mock and discount my witness to you as “laughable” and “not worth your time.” I think I deserve much better than that.

   Who’s actually “Usurping History” here? That’s the salient point. By her own admission in the presentation, your young Jewess friend openly admitted that the modern “seder” has been altered over the centuries. Altered by whom? By the pagan traditions of the Khazars and Edomites – which also are the backbone of Roman Catholicism incidentally. Yet she laments Mormons doing the same thing? Obviously she doesn’t have a clue about Mormon apostle Orson Hyde and his Jewish Rabbinic lineage.

   Finally, of course I have absolutely no problem with their declarations of Christ’s “Messiahship”. But please don’t forget Mormons declare the exact same thing as well. Yet, we don’t condone and support Mormonism and their Temples now, do we?

   I submit the ISSUE here is simply that of total honesty and full transparency. If they would honestly declare their TRUE LINEAGE, that would be a most welcome breath of fresh air. On its website in answer to a frequently asked question,”How can I respond to the accusation that Jews for Jesus distorts Jewish religious symbols?,” Jews for Jesus says, “Regardless of what anyone says, we are Jews in that we are physically descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. At the same time we are also Christiansthose who believe in and follow Jesus, the Jewish Messiah. One classification does not cancel out the other, even though rabbis like to teach that Judaism and Christianity are mutually exclusive categories and hence are antithetical to one another.” The ISSUE is, Dorothy, this PROVEN LIE (that they are PHYSICALLY descended from Abraham) won’t quickly be abandoned because it gives them such a much higher “elitist” standing among America’s “Christian” body and thus much higher DONATIONS pour in – (over $2 million a year.) Sorry, but that is just flat out deceitful and fraudulent in its intent, in my studied opinion.

   As for their “Statement of Faith” – it really smacks to me of echoing Mormonism’s “Articles of Faith” much more than embracing pure Bible teachings from Christ Himself. You know, “We believe”, etc. Again, Dorothy, THAT is the “Issue”. What do they REALLY stand for? Are they the “real deal” Christians, or just wolves in sheep’s clothing fleecing the Christian flock ala Joe Smith and his modern minions? Is this even a fair question to ask, or is it out of bounds to question “Jews” period?

   For instance, “Jews for Jesus” declare: We believe in one sovereign God, existing in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, perfect in holiness, infinite in wisdom, unbounded in power and measureless in love; that God is the source of all creation and that through the immediate exercise of His power all things came into being.

   We believe that Jesus the Messiah was eternally pre-existent and is co-equal with God the Father; that He took on Himself the nature of man (did not BECOME man) through the virgin birth so that He possesses both divine and human natures.

   Please notice that being “co-equal with God the Father” infers that both of them have separate bodies of flesh and bones – a purely Mormon doctrine from Joseph Smith’s bogus “1st vision”. Nowhere do they teach that Christ IS LITERALLY JEHOVAH – that He IS THE FATHER – aka Emmanuel, GOD WITH US. Seems that’s a pretty basic “Christian” teaching, don’t you think? If you hedge on this one, well – we all had better join the Mormons, it would seem.

   Mormonism’s 1st “Article of Faith”: We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

   I have taught hundreds of LDS “Gospel Doctrine” classes concerning the nature of the LDS “Godhead”. The official Mormon teaching is exactly the same as “Jews for Jesus” – that Jesus was PRE-EXISTENT with “Elohim” – aka God the Father – that Jesus was/is the “Firstborn of the Spirit” in the “pre-existence” – and thus qualified for his “Messiahship” as our perfected spiritual “Elder Brother” – and as such is “Unbounded in POWER IN THE PRIESTHOOD, and MEASURELESS IN LOVE.”

   I am deeply saddened that you mock and brush off my witness to you as some wild ramblings apparently not worth too much of your time. As a young 19-year old college student attending SUU before my LDS mission back in 1978, I attended a “seder” and was there introduced to a couple of young “missionary Jews for Jesus” from San Francisco. We were about the same age, and I asked them if they had been baptized LDS. They explained why they weren’t LDS – that their “Hineni Ministries” goal was to declare Jesus as Messiah to all – both Gentile and Jew and to bring both Christians and Jews into one “ecumenical” fold. They then told me that Mormonism and Judaism are “closer to being one” than “mainstream Christianity” would ever be – and “off the record” that “MUCH OF THEIR FINANCIAL SUPPORT” was coming from the LDS Church and the BYU campus. My guess is they also told the evangelical Christians exactly what they wanted to hear about the Mormons – in order to get more monetary donations in their “declared neutrality”. But that much is speculation.

   I guess they were just lying to me, Dorothy. Full of bunk, apparently – just like me. These wonderful, “covenant people” Jews wouldn’t play both sides just to get rich, would they??

   Have a blessed day.

   True

   She then responded with a much more conciliatory e-mail:
   Hi True–
   I’m sorry, please forgive me– I had no intention of mocking you! Do you really think I’m being ‘politically correct’? I’ve rarely been accused of that̷ But the ministry of Jews for Jesus is close to our hearts. While we did not know Moishe Rosen in a personal way, we’d met him and heard him speak many times in the early years of his ministry– we are familiar enough with his manner that my comments still stand. He was a frequent guest speaker at Peninsula Bible Church in Palo Alto, CA where we attended in the 7’s. We’ve been supporters of Jews for Jesus for 3-ish years, and have personally supported a handful of their missionaries, often in our home. And no, I did not follow all of the links, only the first couple. Awhile back I ran across (and read all of) the Ensign article you sited, for another reason. I stopped short of the genetic studies links, because in Christ the bloodline issue is irrelevant.

   I’m certainly aware of the LDS church’s involvement in Zionism, though not to the depth that you are. I have no need to be. God will sort out and keep His promises to the Jewish people, not because they are privileged or politically correct, but simply by His sovereign choice. He knows who they are now, regardless of genealogy, and He has always made it clear that the issue is individual faith in His salvation. Romans 9:14 says in regard to Israel, “What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!’ And in 1:12, “For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him̷” But then Paul goes on to say ‘and thus all Israel will be saved̷ from the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.” (Romans 11:26,28) This is not a ‘Zionist’ statement. It’s simply what the Bible says. Romans 9-11 is pretty thick stuff, but I read no Zionist agenda there, nor any political platform, only Paul’s (and God’s) heart-cry for the salvation of the people He’d chosen– He sent His Son through them!

   There are many flavors of ‘Messianic Jew’. (I’ve known a few.) I will not accept that the LDS church rules over them all; on this we will simply have to disagree. Anyone can call themselves that, and they don’t all even talk to or respect each other, usually on the basis of their politics regarding Israel. In the same way, anyone can call themselves ‘christian’, accept money from any source they choose, launch any kind of ‘ministry’, and preach any message they deem ‘gospel’ — and yes, perhaps even become unwitting puppets.

   The LDS church is certainly a master of usurping and twisting truth– no argument there. But I do wonder why you insist on applying LDS definitions to the terms used in the statement of faith? ‘One sovereign God, existing in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit’ is the traditional way of expressing the nature of our triune God. It is clearly not the ‘godhead’ of LDS doctrine. I read no implication regarding bodies of flesh and bone in that statement. ‘Firstborn of the spirit’ is not a term the Bible applies to the Son, but it is a mormon teaching, as you pointed out. Biblically, the Son is “the onlybegotten,” (monogenus), the only one of His genus. As for His becoming human, Philippians 2:6-8 speaks of His existing ‘in the form of God’, and ‘taking the form’ of a bondservant– adding that He was ‘made in the likeness of men’, and ‘found in appearance as a man’. It’s a worthwhile study to pursue what those words mean biblically, not in LDS-speak. We’ll have to come back to this discussion another time, because once again I’m out of time, True.

   Brother, I can’t argue with your personal experience or conversations you had– that would be silly. But isn’t it very possible that the people you talked to had a very limited understanding of LDS things, as many still do? You are smarter than the average bear! There are many genuinely born again followers of Jesus who are tripped up over the LDS redefinition of familiar Christian terms. That’s the evil genius in the LDS lie, is it not?

   My brain is too tired for more̷
   D.

   My reply:

   Thanks, Dorothy. I understand completely.

   Each of us takes different life paths in our journey to find Him. Allow me to share a bit more of mine.

   Following my LDS mission to Rochester, NY (what Mormons call the “Latter Day Holy Land”) – I married Joan and completed my Bachelors degree at SUU. I was, at that time, best described as a “11% Active” Mormon. During that era, I observed firsthand the incredibly strong liaison formed between “Zionist” Jews and LDS Inc. As I mentioned before, early Mormon “apostle” Orson Hyde was a “Jew” – and many in his family were Rabbis. This is where Smith received much of his tutor-age in Jewish “Kaballah” and Satanic mysticism – not to mention his knowledge of Hebrew.

   In your visits to Israel, did you happen to notice the lush building on Mt. Scopus? That’s the BYU Center for Near Eastern Studies – an incredibly complex structure spanning 8 stories underground. It has a huge meeting room and organ that rivals the SLC Tabernacle. Then there are the “Orson Hyde Memorial Gardens” – a LDS owned and operated prime acreage on the Mount of Olives. Did you know that EVERY ISRAELI MOSSAD/IDF officer has the dedicatory prayer of Orson Hyde MEMORIZED??? It’s true!

   The point I wish to make is that “modern” Judaism and Mormonism are incredibly deeply intertwined at the highest levels. It is NOT TRUE that Mormonism has usurped Judaic “customs and traditions”. In fact, they are largely one and the same. Mormons are much more “Jewish/Zionist” than Christian, actually. It is not a fluke that Joe Smith, Brigham Young, and the other early Mormon leaders referred to non-Mormons as “Gentiles”.

   Another FACT you may not be aware of, is that Heber J. Grant mortgaged 1% of LDS property, including SLC “Temple Square” to a branch of Jewish-owned Kuhn, Loeb, and Company in the early 192’s in order to corner the west’s sugar market. When the market crashed in 1929 – the LDS loans defaulted during the “Great Depression”. A new “Corporation of the 1st Presidency” was formed, and suddenly the “Church” was flush with cash. It was at this time, the LDS financial statements and balance sheets went TOP SECRET. Only a select few were allowed to see WHO ACTUALLY OWNED THE LDS INC. STOCK – and thus, who covertly controls the Church behind the curtain. What I am telling you is that LDS INC. is today, completely and totally, an appendage of Jewish WALL STREET ZIONISTS controlled by Goldman Sachs and Kuhn Loeb. That is their biggest “secret”. When one understands this singular truth, suddenly puzzle pieces begin to fit into place and the big picture comes into focus. Mormon Mariner Eccles was the architect of the Federal Reserve system of PRIVATE banks that today controls much of the developed world finances. Is all this just “Conspiracy Theory”? No, it is all simply historical FACT aka – TRUTH.

   You see, dear Sister Dorothy, – to me personally, leaving Mormonism involved leaving the MAMMON-ISM of the completely Jewish-controlled LDS Inc. After my SUU graduation, I worked for Hugh Pinnock’s “Intermountain Financial Group” (IFG) during the early 8’s. There I met Mark Hoffman – another crypto-Jew swindler of swindlers. I spent 6 weeks in NYC being trained by the best Goldman Sachs had to offer. You need to know that at one time I was an “insider” – and so when I testify of these truths, it is from the first-person, hands on eye-witnessing.

   Like you and Jim, I too have had personal contact with “messianic” Jews – including “Jews for Jesus” while a devout Mormon. For what it’s worth, I simply don’t trust them. Without a doubt, most of their young “missionaries” are very likeable, very sincere and quite devout in their convictions of Jesus as Messiah. That is all well and good – but PLEASE LOOK DEEPER INTO THEIR ORGANIZATION. Hopefully you are not naive enough to believe that the bulk of their $2+ million a year in operating funds comes solely from evangelical Christian collection plates with quite limited resources such as the “Corporate Body” of similar Main Street Churches across America?

   Again, I understand that bloodlines don’t matter to Christ and His salvation. The problem is, I submit, THEY DON’T accept this. To them their claim to the exclusive ownership of the bloodline of Israel is their identity and their POWER BASE to the Christian world. I submit that is why they strive to keep their “Jewishness” intact while at the same time claiming to be totally Christian. Why isn’t simply being CHRISTIAN more than good enough, if CHRIST IS ALL?

   I have to say I really bristle when I hear them declare “Christ was a Jew”. No, He was NOT – he was a Nazarene – and that is a huge difference. Remember Christ’s words recorded in John where He told the Jewish leaders they were NOT Abraham’s children, but instead, their father was the DEVIL? Why would He make such a declaration, if He was likewise of their genetic bloodline?

   I submit that Flavius Josephus’ historical texts provide the answers. Under John Hyrcanus in 125 B.C. the EDOMITES of Mount Seir were given access to the Judaic “priesthood”. With their wealth and powerful political connections to Rome, Edomite Herod the Great’s minions, via MURDER and POLITICAL MAYHEM, gained complete control of the Sanhedrin and the “Jewish” leadership councils within a short century. Of course, the EDOMITE lineage is traced back to CAIN, thanks to Esau’s polygamous marriages to the forbidden bloodlines.

   Again, bloodlines under the New Covenant don’t matter much as far as His saving Grace is concerned, but yet in another way they do matter. Cain’s SATANIC MINIONS are still in power on the earth. They HATE CHRIST and all He stands for. They are the “wolves” who seek to destroy the sheep of the Shepherd – and who so very often take upon them sheep’s clothing (claiming to be Christian) in order to do so. By discerning the Satanic BLOODLINES – one can therefore often accurately identify the adversary.

   I guess it’s all about discernment. That is why I keep harping on the KHAZARIAN BLOODLINE RESEARCH! Don’t forget that the Bolshevik Khazar “Jews” liquidated over 66 million CHRISTIANS in Russia and Eastern Europe “gulags” during the 2th century. Don’t forget that COMMUNISM is exclusively a Jewish invention. Don’t forget about the Babylonian Talmud – which teaches that Christ is “boiling in human excrement” for all eternity. Notice also that “Jews for Jesus” have not specifically denounced the hateful words of the Talmud in their statement of beliefs – only downplaying its importance. Again – it appears they are keeping one foot securely ensconced in Hell.

   That’s enough for now. I have vented enough. I respect your perspectives and experiences, and do not wish to discount them in any way. As I said, we each have walked different paths – and sharing is part of learning, is it not?

   Most sincerely,

   True

4. Sharing and learning. How quaint.

   How about this. Mr. Ott, you send me a letter with questions on them and I will answer them. How about that. It should be better than sending a man to the PO Box Office to prove my identity when I was standing right behind him. He was not you, so I did nothing. I let him pass by then I checked my mail.

   Why not send me a letter, it is not that I actually want anything, I am just performing a maneuver called a “clusterfuck” to said agency personal, so that each and every one of them can be identified.

   If you do not understand my motives watch an old series called “the prisoner” and find the three steps a, b, and c.

   All I am giving you is a reason inside to rant, entering in using small notions, finding a way in.

   I am just being a shadow, being seen in the daylight.